Get More Out of Gifting: Acquisition, Retention, and AOV
While brands typically focus on gifting around the holidays, the opportunity exists year round.
Any merchant’s products could be purchased as gifts. Perhaps something obvious, like a gift card, or more subtle like an order with a gift note shipped to a different address. Other times, you’ll never know the final recipient.
While brands typically focus on gifting around the holidays, the opportunity exists year round.
In this post we’re going to look at:
- The opportunity of gifting and gift products
- How to offer a better gift experience
- How to use gift cards as a promotional tool
- What you can do with the data you get from gift products
The gift product opportunity
The most obvious way to demonstrate the value of gifting is the sheer size of the market for gift products—especially in Q4. Last year, holiday retail sales in the US topped $886 billion, with the vast majority of those sales related to gifts and gift buying. And it isn’t just during the holiday season—gift card sales globally are expected to reach $1.4 trillion by 2026.
However, the opportunity doesn’t end with just higher sales at key periods. Acquisition is one of your biggest opportunities.
Let’s start with the traditional gift experience: A customer buys a product to gift to a recipient. There’s a chance the recipient hasn’t heard of your brand before, so this is their chance to try your product for “free.” If the original customer has a good post-purchase experience, this can help to boost retention. They may pass on word of mouth recommendations, leave a review, or purchase another gift at a later date.
With digital gifts, the reward is even greater for your long-term brand strategy. Digital gifts like gift cards and subscriptions have two direct points of contact for a single order. You can engage with both the original customer and their recipient through email and SMS, having greater contact beyond the original order.
With gift cards, you also have the opportunity to increase sales beyond the original purchase. 75% of recipients are likely to spend over the value of their gift card, meaning that original purchase could end up being worth much more once the card is redeemed.
And last, but certainly not least, there’s corporate gifting. The corporate gifting market is set to top $312 billion by the end of 2025 with gift cards being the most popular option for corporate buyers. In offering a strong gift card option, you can attract this lucrative market year-round whether that’s for a holiday employee gift, giveaways for a promotional event, client “thank you” gifts, and so on.
How to offer a better gift experience
To make the most of the gifting market, brands need to offer an engaging, customer-led experience.
#1 - Give customers a more personalized gift card option
Customers buy gift cards for a variety of reasons—they’re a great last-minute option, they may not know which product to buy, or the recipient’s apparel size , etc. The convenience of gift cards is great—but the lack of personalization can be off-putting.
With a traditional gift, there’s gift wrap and a personalized tag, as well as physically handing it over. With a typical gift card, it’s just a basic brand image with an impersonal electronic transaction. It’s an underwhelming experience for both parties, so if you want your gift card to sell you need to bring in a personal touch.
Here are some easy, high-impact additions to your gift card experience:
- Allow customers to add the recipient’s name along with a gift note.
- Give customers the option to send it directly to their recipient on a chosen day, or to themselves to pass on personally.
- Offer a variety of images to select from to suit different occasions—holidays, birthdays, thank you’s, congratulations etc.
- Give your team clear, easy-to-use backend tools that make it easy to offer a fast customer support experience. For example, when a customer needs to resend a gift card due to a mistyped email address.
Adding these features is simple when using Govalo and can have a major impact on gift card sales. Shopify Plus merchant Felix Gray saw a 3.5x increase in gift card sales after they installed Govalo, and were able to offer a more streamlined support experience at the same time with the app’s backend tools.
#2 - Develop a gift subscription experience
If you offer subscription products—offer them as gifts! If you’re already delighting customers with your subscription experience, make it easy for them to give that same experience to friends and family. You’ll increase your brand reach and give potential customers a “free trial” of your subscription. This allows you to showcase the benefits of being a subscriber, and retain that customer long after the gift subscription period is over.
To get there, it’s essential that you have a strong, simple gift subscription product.
Govalo offers integrations with Shopify and Recharge that take the friction out of the gift subscription purchasing process..
#3 - Offer a simple corporate gifting solution
Typically when a corporate customer wishes to buy in bulk, they have to get in touch with your team to arrange the purchase. While this is great for building a direct relationship with the customer, it can turn into a time-suck—especially in the run up to the holiday season.
Instead, make it easy to purchase gift cards in bulk right—from your storefront.
Buying 1,000 gift cards should be as easy as buying one. Govalo’s bulk gift card feature allows customers to upload a CSV with the details of their recipients and the value of each card, as well as gift notes and the date on which the card should be delivered. They can then complete the purchase through normal checkout!
How to use gift cards as a promotional tool
Anytime you add a new app to your store’s tech stack, you want to get the highest possible value out of it. Gift cards can be a power tool in your promotional strategy.
Tip #1 - Use as an alternative to discounting
Discounting is a common practice in ecommerce, especially around Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Discounts are easy for merchants to implement, and customers love them. However, the long-term implications can harm retention and AOV. The customers who first buy using a discount may be unwilling to ever buy at full price.
So, you’ll need an alternative, and gift cards are an attractive option. They have the same effect on customers as discounts, without the harmful long-term effects on brand perception and loyalty. A gift card is seen as something of value, rather than removing value from a product using a percentage discount. The customer is more incentivized to use the gift card, and will more likely spend over the value.
Some ideas for running a gift card focussed promotion:
- Spend over a certain amount, get a gift card, i.e. spend $100, get a $10 gift card
- Buy a gift card worth a certain value, store tops it up. i.e. Buy a $50 gift card, get it topped up to $65
- Buy a gift card, receive another one for free. i.e. buy a $50 gift card, receive a $10 gift card for free, or even matched value
All of these options encourage the customer or their recipient to spend more when they come to redeem a gift card. If a customer doesn’t use a 10% discount code in their email, they don’t really feel like they’ve lost anything. However if they get a $10 gift card, it feels like they need to use it and make the most of it.
Tip #2 - Use as part of a referral program
Referral programs can be highly effective as an acquisition strategy. Unlike typical acquisition channels, personal referrals from a close, trusted source carry more weight. Reading a review from a stranger and seeing a discount code floating around online is one thing, but having a friend tell you how great a brand is and a gift card to spend money there? That’s a game changer. 84% of people trust recommendations from friends, and are 4 times more likely to make a purchase when referred by a friend.
Referral strategies work by offering both parties a reward if a purchase is made. The referred party is able to use their reward on their first purchase, whereas the original referrer usually gets the reward upon that purchase being completed. In many cases, rewards are discounts, like $10 off, 10% off etc. Instead, consider offering gift cards as rewards, rather than discounts
Tip #3 - Use as a reward for loyal customers
Rewarding loyalty is important in any retention strategy—your customers want to feel like their continued support is valued by your brand. 60% of loyal customers will purchase more frequently with their preferred brands, and 71% say that loyalty programs are important to their relationships with brands.
There are two ways to use gift cards as part of a loyalty strategy. The first is through automated triggers, and the second is through your loyalty program.
Everyone loves a good surprise in their inbox. Try setting up triggers using automated email and SMS workflows that take into account the activity of your most loyal customers. For example, if they’ve placed a certain number of orders in a given timeframe, or based on their LTV, or their AOV. These benchmarks can trigger different values of gift card being sent as a sort of “Thank You” for their loyalty. The bonus here is that loyal customers typically spend 57% more than their newer counterparts.
For loyalty programs, include gift cards as a reward that can be earned whether you use a tier or points-based system. This positions gift cards as something covetable, rather than something that customers will only remember if they need a last-minute gift idea. Increase the perceived value of a gift card over another redeemable reward option. For example, if a certain number of points can earn a product worth $10, make a $15 gift card the equivalent option.
What you can do with the data you get from gift products
Data is essential in any business—especially ecommerce. The data you gather gives you insight into your products, customers, and store that will allow you to optimize your offerings and increase key metrics vital to the continued success of your business.
The more data you use, the better your gift strategy will be and the more valuable this aspect of your business will be long-term. After all, every new product requires effort—development, creation, ordering, warehousing, marketing etc. If you have poor-performing products, identify them and focus your team’s efforts on what is successful. This can tighten up your offering, focusing customer attention on products that sell. You’ll also better understand your customers—what they like, what they buy, the kind of messaging they best respond to, what content they engage with and so on.
Some of the data points you can look at from gift products include:
- Which gift products sell best, and which are low performing—this includes different denominations of gift cards, and different durations of gift subscription. You can also dig deeper into audience segmentation, looking at new vs returning customers and order value
- What gift recipients buy with gift cards, and how much they spend
- Email and SMS engagement with gift customers vs gift recipients
- Which products original customers browsed before buying a gift product
- Retention rate with gift recipients—Especially with gift subscriptions
- Rate of sale with gift products during different time periods —For example, how does the rate of sale of gift cards increase over time or on key dates such as Christmas Eve, Valentine’s Day, etc
For many merchants, gift products and gifting in general only becomes relevant during holiday sales planning. Gift cards are rolled out in emails after shipping deadlines, then quietly added to a sitemap for the rest of the year. However, the opportunity to do more can unlock a major source of revenue, loyalty, and data that will serve your strategy year-round, and long-term.
To learn more about Govalo and how to improve your gifting strategy, click here.
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Dale Wilson
Resolution
I think the most important thing brands can do in 2023 is to better manage their customer data—both ethically and effectively. There’s an opportunity for brands to know their customers better than ever before—a clear benefit for both the customer and the brand. When you manage your data correctly, you’ll create stronger and more personalized ads, creative, site experiences, and so much more.
Tip
This is a classic: Let the data guide you. Go where the buyers for your products are and communicate with them on a personal level (i.e. by persona and funnel position) and nurture those relationships (past, present, and future customers). It’s possible—all through data.
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Store owners tend to make assumptions about the way customers interact with their website. Most never go back and analyze their design choices to find pain points or areas of opportunity. By using heatmaps and scrollmaps, they can see where real customers are clicking and concentrating their attention. Leveraging this data, brands can start to iterate on design and make their online store experience streamlined and intuitive.
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Hotjar provides a simple way to implement heatmaps, scrollmaps, and recorded user sessions on your site, helping you acquire incredibly informative user data. Additionally, it gives you the ability to create on-site surveys, which allows you to obtain direct and often critical feedback from users about their experience.
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OrderlyEmails is our go-to tool for transactional emails. It helps us level up our brands’ email aesthetics with customizable, quick-to-implement Shopify templates.
Lately, I’ve been really interested in Smile.io’s loyalty platform. Their UX is fantastic for teams with low bandwidth!
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Stop allocating budgets to low-hanging fruit that doesn’t move the needle on conversion. Think about what’s really going to improve your CX and the return of undertaking different initiatives—not just on what’s top on your list of bugbears on the site!
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One of the best ways to understand your customer behavior is by using HotJar. Their heat-mapping and screen recording tools shine a light on where customers are navigating to and from on your site, where they're rage clicking and experiencing frustration, and where conversion is dropping off within real life customer journeys and flows!
Understanding your customers’ pain points via data and analytics , will allow you to work with your CRO/CX Agency to solve customer frustrations and improve conversion.
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Jimmy Aristizabal
Resolution
33% of customer service inquiries are pre-sale questions. What does this mean? If you’re not investing in customer service, you’re missing out on revenue-generating opportunities.
Tip
The benefits of elevating your customer experience:
- 10% to 25% increase in AOV for customers who engage with live chat pre-purchase
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Gorgias is our favorite Helpdesk platform. They can reduce costs by 35%, primarily by decreasing the average ticket handle time. Their machine learning algorithms are trained on millions of ecommerce-related interactions across Gorgias’ customer base and provide accurate, automated replies for the most common ecommerce inquiries. This helps our agents resolve tickets faster, which provides the customer a seamless experience.
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Trust your agency! Agencies do the same things across multiple brands and niches, so we see the trends and have the practice and experience!
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Don't be afraid of data and insights. If customers aren't clicking on your emails, try a new CTA. If your ads are driving good metrics at a small spend, start scaling. If your customers are complaining about a product, look into QA! If the data tells you something isn't working, let it go and try something else!
Tool
I'm supposed to say Tydo, right? 😉
Rikin Diwan
Resolution
Double down on differentiation. There will be a lot of headwinds this year and standing out from the crowd will set you apart.
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A picture is worth 1,000 words. A video? Probably millions. In ecommerce that value translates into engagement, acquisition, and retention—everything you need to impact your bottom line.
At soona, we've seen the we've seen the impact of creative and the continuous split testing of it yield results. Our resolution is to challenge ourselves and double down on innovation and creative optionality so that each brand we work with can distinguish themselves in a crowded sea of D2C ecomm. We'd love to see our brands share this resolution and keep pushing the creative limits.
Tool
Klaviyo. We're using it to power our email and newsletter at soona too!
Shayna Silvers
Resolution
Optimize your returns strategy! This can lead to valuable customer insights, enhanced user experiences, and increased revenue and customer loyalty.
Tip
Brands need to dive deeper into understanding their customers to set themselves up for success. Conduct research to gain insights into customer needs, preferences, and behaviors. By doing so, you can develop targeted strategies that will enhance customer experience and boost overall retention.
Tool
Right now I would say Gorgias. Having a good customer service tool is crucial to building strong customer relationships.
Wes Buckwalter
Resolution
Start paying heavy attention to data, specifically around retention. We see a lot of effort put towards acquisition with the assumption that once someone buys, they are your customer forever. Instead, get to know your customer, understand their needs, and analyze their behaviors once they are on-site and judge their sentiment after they have visited. Work with a retention focused and data-driven agency to implement tools that contribute to repeat business and customer delight. It will pay dividends.
Tip
When surveyed, about 80% of ecommerce merchants think that they are delivering a great experience to their customers. However, when the same customers are surveyed, only 8% of those customers think that they are getting a great experience from the merchant. Now, more than ever, retaining loyal customers is an essential part of any online business and you should spend time with your customers to judge their experience with your website and products and offer improvements based on that feedback.
Tool
Tydo's report cards are an essential tool, along with Klaviyo for email and SMS, Recharge for subscriptions and memberships, Okendo for reviews and surveys, Rebuy for AI driven collections and upsells, Loop for self service returns... each tool is great on their own, but their strength as the ultimate tool comes from when they are used together!
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Katina Mountanos
BOOK PICK
Hi there. This is Katina Mountanos. I'm the founder and CEO of Kosterina, and I’m answering your question about a book that's changed the way I think about and operate my business. The book that's definitely done that for me is called Pour Your Heart Into It: How Starbucks Built a Company One Cup At A Time. It's written by Howard Schultz, the founder of Starbucks. And the book is essentially a lesson on how to lead with authenticity and how to maintain a commitment to your product and make sure it stays excellent every step of the way. In the book, every time Howard was challenged, he fell back to his core values and the reasons he started the company in the first place, which were a love for good coffee and the experience of coffee that he found in Italy and broader Europe. And, he also thought back to the type of product and service he originally intended to put out into the world. I've read this memoir several times and feel like it's an incredible guide for aspiring entrepreneurs, startup teams and big company business leaders alike.
Dee Charlemagne
BOOK PICK
Hi, my name is Dee, and I'm the cofounder of AVEC Drinks. We make a premium better-for-you mixer. So, think of a yuzu lime or jalapeño blood orange instead of that typical club soda or margarita mix. But everything we make is low sugar, low calorie, made with real juice, botanicals and agave. The book I've selected is Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, which is kind of famous in the entrepreneurial world. So, I hope no one else picked it. I've kind of read it three different times pre-entrepreneurship, post-entrepreneurship, during entrepreneurship and restarting again. And I think three big takeaways from the book are hire wisely. He had a crazy employee that was you know selling Nike shoes and sending him POs and orders on his own volition. So, find people who are really passionate. The second thing I would say is, you know, honor your personal life. He talks about his story with his wife and that personal journey. And then three, I would just say, you know, really keeping at it and try again. It wasn't a rockstar success to start out with Nike, even though we look at it today. It's a really, really long journey. And sometimes it's not your first idea, but it's your second idea. And so I love rereading Shoe Dog and kind of hearing the story of a brand that we couldn't imagine the world living without, which is Nike.
Cristina Ros Blankfein
BOOK PICK
Hi, I’m Cristina Ros Blankfein. I’m one of the cofounders of Swoon, which is a line of zero-sugar beverages. We make the drinks that you loved growing up better with high-quality ingredients and have cleaned them up to really have that great nostalgic, carefree taste now without the sugar. A book that inspired me was Shoe Dog by Phil Knight. I loved just how engaging it was, in large part it read like a novel because he so seamlessly interwove the passion and drive that he had for his hobby running and turned that into a business. One of the things I was just remarked by was how he relentlessly cared about the product and how he shopped it around by just dropping it off at meets, bringing it places, and knowing that if people tried it, they would fall in love with it and buy it. And, obviously, Nike is such an iconic brand now and a case study in excellent marketing, but I think that relentless focus on a high-quality product and again, meshing something that he cared passionately about that he did day in, day out—running—and turning that into a business idea was really fascinating. He just has this incredible, innate sense of moving forward with his business and not taking no at any point and being at the brink but believing so much in his idea and in himself that he just kept going on, and on, and on. The sort of early days, MVP stories were very inspiring to me and again that focus on product, that focus on translating a daily life passion and turning it into a business and that just relentless belief that it must exist, this product must exist and that he was going to be able to create it I found very inspiring.
Peiman Raf
BOOK PICK
Hey everyone, this is Peiman. I started a brand called Madhappy in 2017. And, you know, one book that really helped pave the way for me and that I read at least once a year is Shoe Dog by Phil Knight. For those that don't know it, it's the story of Nike and all the ups and downs that they went through. And I think in any startup, you're going to deal with so many challenges and reading something from someone that's had a lot of success like Nike has and like Phil has is super inspiring and also just being able to put yourself in the positions that he was in and feeling some of those same feelings that I'm now feeling in a startup I think really, really just have helped me a lot and and so that's really one that I always say. You know, I hope everyone who hasn't read it because I know it's probably a common suggestion does check it out because I think whether you're in apparel or not, it's super helpful as a startup journey and really, really hits home on on all the feelings that we all share on this road to creating something long lasting and meaningful.
Libie Motchan
BOOK PICK
My name is Libie Motchan, and I'm one of the founders of Fulton, which is a modern brand of insoles. We offer cork insoles that mold to the shape of your foot. And we want to show that our support isn't just for old people. It should be part of everyone's daily footwear routine. The book I want to talk about is called Burn Rate by Andy Dunn. Andy is the father of the direct to consumer movement. And he's also the founder of Bonobos. But the book is actually not really about Bonobos. It's about something that's not often discussed when it comes to entrepreneurship. And that's mental health and mental health issues. It's really common to have mental health issues, but people don't really talk about it. Being a founder is wrought with challenges and ups and downs. Andy shines light on the dark sides of being a founder and the dark sides of success, highlighting that things aren't always what they seem from the outside. And often there are challenges and hardships and demons that people can't see. But without talking about them, no one knows they exist. And he shares his story about founding Bonobos but also about his diagnosis of bipolar disorder and the way it impacted his company, but also how he kept it a secret for years and how it was perceived by his family and those around him. By opening up about his story, Andy destigmatizes some of the shame associated with mental health issues and also helps to create a dialogue around it and encourage other people to open up and seek treatment and get rid of some of the shame around it. The book was incredibly enlightening, and it really reminded me to prioritize my mental health and seek ways to find balance in life. It also helped me realize that mental health concerns shouldn't be something that I'm ashamed of or anyone else is ashamed of. They're normal and without talking about them, it's impossible to really seek help and find closure.
Chris Meade
BOOK PICK
Hey, what's up guys. It’s Chris over at CROSSNET, the world's first four-way volleyball game. So I'm the cofounder of a bootstrapped brand that I started about five years ago, in my mom's basement. We've taken this four-way volleyball game up to $25 million in revenue. There's been a lot of hard and tough lessons that I've learned along the way. But, one book that has been super inspiring and helpful as of late, is a small paperback called Double Your Profits by Bob Fifer. And essentially what it does, it's about a 100 page quick read, but it gives you a quick and honest gut check on all the areas that you are spending and overspending money on. I'm talking about stupid stuff, like having 18 Dropbox licenses when you only need three, paying for freelance workers that aren't working 20 hours a week and really are only taking four hours of time. It is an exceptionally helpful book and I should probably even reread it given the current economic situation. It just gives you a gut check on what's working, what's not working, where you're overspending, see all the fluff, and get to profitability, which is needed for a bootstrapped company. And yeah, it's just super insightful. It’s been extremely helpful for me along my journey, and I could not recommend any more. So yeah, Double Your Profits by Bob Fifer. I picked it up when I was kind of at a dark time where the business wasn't looking healthy. I needed to cut down on costs and cut down on marketing. And in the last six months, we've been able to lower acquisition costs by over 50, not saying it's all because of this book but it's definitely helped me look at things with a new perspective and angle that I wish I would have had much sooner. So hope you enjoy.
Maggy Nyamumbo
BOOK PICK
Hi, my name is Margaret Nyamumbo, and I’m the founder of Kahawa 1893 Coffee. We're a specialty coffee company with a mission to empower women producers. And we've created a new way to tip farmers directly. The book that I found very fascinating was a small audiobook, less than two hours long, that explores this concept of brand marketing. The book is called The Big Brand Lie, and the premise of the book is the idea that you can't just create a brand. Brands are created through categories. When you look at successful brands that are in the market today, they exist because they created a new category that they became synonymous with. An example of this is Kleenex which created the tissue category and now any brand in that category is essentially referred to as Kleenex by default.
David Phan
BOOK PICK
Hi, my name is David, and I'm the founder of Huppy. Huppy is a sustainable oral care brand that makes these amazing toothpaste habits that's way better than conventional toothpaste that comes in a plastic tube. When we reimagined toothpaste, we did it with clean ingredients and sustainable packaging. To us, all you have to do is chew a tablet, brush with a wet toothbrush, and rinse. The book that I've selected is called The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson. I picked this book because it's so applicable for all things business and life. It's taught me that in order to get really good at your craft, it's all about just getting a little bit better day by day. And overtime, getting a little bit better each day compounds into something significant and great. When I'm having a bad day, I think about this book and reframe the bad day into an opportunity for me to show up. Here's my favorite quote from the book: “Showing up is essential. Showing up consistently is powerful. Showing up consistently with a positive outlook is even more powerful.” When I think about this quote, I'm reminded that building an awesome company takes time and passion.
Cole Pearsall
BOOK PICK
Hey folks, this is Cole, cofounder of Acid League and Proxies. The book that I have chosen is Business Stripped Bare by Richard Branson, and the reason why it is significant to me was because it was gifted to me by my grandmother, who had found it in her condo library. It did not have a front cover on it. They had pages highlighted, and it's a perfect representation of a kind of book that has moved around and been handed from person to person which is a testament to you know, how many people have consumed it and brought value from it. And where I drew the most value is because this book was written in the perspective of a series of journal articles. He dissects lessons that he learned and notes that he took. Richard Branson notoriously carries around a notepad with him and refines his craft by understanding the lessons that he's learned and reflecting on past situations, scenarios in business, to give himself insight for the future, and what to improve on. And to me, this resonates with me because for about seven years, I've had a daily practice of writing down my thoughts in a journal and asking myself questions about the day. And I'm able to specify any date that I choose and be able to know what mind frame, what motions I was thinking through or working through that day. And when you come to tough times in your business, those are the times that are the most important to reflect on and understand what could I have improved on and how can I use these lessons to improve my business in the future. So, again, my book is Business Stripped Bare by Richard Branson.
David Fudge
BOOK PICK
Hey, guys. David Fudge here, co founder and CEO of Aplos. We are a modern spirits brand, reimagining the cocktail occasion, and we create functional non alcohol spirits for those of us who want to enjoy a great craft cocktail, but we don't want the hangover the next day. And my recommendation is a book called The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix, who's a psychologist and a coach. And, it's a really simple and inspiring read that really challenges you to look inward, sort of understand the limiting beliefs that are holding you back and really reframe your mindset so that you can achieve your goals and be a great leader.
I think the experience of entrepreneurship is never as linear and sort of pretty as it appears in media and TV. And some days you can feel like you're getting punched in the face five times. The next day it can feel like the best day of your life. And so it can be pretty emotionally exhausting and challenging. You have to be the cheerleader for your business externally and with your team and inspire people constantly and stay inspired yourself. And so I think if you don't take the time to really get your own mindset right and really make sure you're looking at your own mental health, it becomes a much more challenging, if not impossible, journey and experience. And so I highly, really recommend this book. It's pretty simple, and you can read it over a couple of days or even a long flight cross country, and I hope you enjoy it.
More about the project
Here at Tydo, we try to highlight DTC founders who run their business in various ways. And, that's because there's no "right" way to run a DTC brand.
This project illustrates exactly that. Whether it's how a founder supports their team or how they talk about mental health in the workplace, every founder has a different approach. How do they discover these different approaches? One way: reading. Discover the greatest books that have changed the way 15+ founders think about or operate their business.
You can also listen to these book picks on Spotify or Anchor.fm.